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☁ Via Lish: A very well written article that explains why throwing out religious platitudes to an Atheist while they're grieving can be offensive to them. Before I get into any of this, I should possibly clarify for some of you, since I don't generally talk about religion- I'm an Atheist. Well. More accurately, I'm an odd Atheist/Agnostic mix, meaning that while I absolutely don't believe in God or Heaven or Hell or any of that, I'm also willing to admit that there's really no way of knowing for sure, one way or another. I'm cool with other religions as long as someone's not trying to convert me or it's not being shoved down my throat. It's not something I make a big deal of because it's not something that affects my life on a daily basis. Anyway. This was so not the point. Onward!
I had a conversation with Lish about this, which I'm not going to totally rehash, but to me it basically boils down to respecting other people's beliefs. A lot of people don't understand Atheism, and for many of these, it's just not on their radar at all. It's a thoughtlessness. They assume, well, it would be comforting to ME, so it must be to THEM. Nevermind that "I'm sorry for your loss" is just as easy to say, and offering whatever assistance you can will mean more. Personally, I'm in the "it doesn't bother me that much" camp, in general, unless they go on about it forever or I hear it a thousand times in ten minutes. I get the meaning behind it, and I appreciate it, even though it doesn't help. Though the whole "god's will" thing is an exception- that IS hurtful and offensive, and I seem to remember walking away from people who have said that to me. The bottom line here: be considerate and respectful of the person grieving. That's all. And isn't that true regardless of who they pray to (or don't pray to)? (*cough* I just totally wrote "prey" instead of "pray". Nice Freudian slip there, Ver. XD)
☁ This is too cute. I don't even like kids, and this made me want to hug him. The parents, too. He's a lucky kid to have such accepting and open-minded parents. That being said, assuming it's not something he ends up growing out of later- knowing you're gay at six? Just. Wow. O_o
☁ I read this book yesterday that is, for some reason I have yet to figure out, bringing a couple of original muses back to the foreground of my mind. I haven't thought about them, or their story, in ages. The book isn't even related to the story in any way, except one character's tendency to overthink things. WTF brain?
I don't know, maybe I should look at it again. I stopped due to a nasty case of writer's block- I got two characters in a particular situation and couldn't figure out how to get them out of it- but maybe if I approach it from a different angle? The other problem was that I found that the more I wrote, the more I -despised- my main character. The different angle I'm thinking of would solve that as well, because it would shift the main focus from the annoying little brat to someone I actually like. The only problem is that originally, the POV shifted between four different main-ish characters, with the one I call the main as the hub basically. Changing this causes a whole bunch of other issues as far as things being shown. I guess I'll have to try and figure it out at some point.
☁ I read a lot of m/m fiction. (I know that comes as a shock to you all.) It's a genre that's very hit or miss, from my experience. I've read some wonderful things. I've also read things that never should've seen the light of day. Quality of writing is all over the place- not just with things like characters, but with basics like GRAMMAR and PUNCTUATION. I swear to god, some of these editors need to be fired. Anyway. While, obviously, mistakes happen regardless of genre (nobody's perfect), I've NEVER seen this kind of lack of editing or grasp of the basics in ANY other genre.
This does have a point, I swear. I wrote a review on Goodreads of a book recently- the novel was fabulous, by the way, and I said as much- where I mentioned that my expectations had not been terribly high, due to previous experience. Another reader asked me why, and after I explained, she pretty much jumped all over me. Uh... OBVIOUSLY the quality of the book is going to depend on the quality of editing and the ability of the author, regardless of genre. I know that, I'm not a moron. It just seems that there are lesser quality editors at m/m publishers. Or, also possible, is that certain m/m publishers put quantity over quality. I AM ALLOWED TO HAVE MY OPINION, LEAVE ME ALONE, WOMAN! The best part? She hasn't even read the book in question. So now, according to her, she's going to have to read it because I held up up as an example of good writing. Great. Now if she doesn't like it (And there's a good chance she won't. Looking at the handful of books we have in common, we have VERY different tastes.), then she's going to be up my ass about how I don't know what I'm talking about or whatever. Wonderful. Why do people have to pick fights over stupid shit?
I had a conversation with Lish about this, which I'm not going to totally rehash, but to me it basically boils down to respecting other people's beliefs. A lot of people don't understand Atheism, and for many of these, it's just not on their radar at all. It's a thoughtlessness. They assume, well, it would be comforting to ME, so it must be to THEM. Nevermind that "I'm sorry for your loss" is just as easy to say, and offering whatever assistance you can will mean more. Personally, I'm in the "it doesn't bother me that much" camp, in general, unless they go on about it forever or I hear it a thousand times in ten minutes. I get the meaning behind it, and I appreciate it, even though it doesn't help. Though the whole "god's will" thing is an exception- that IS hurtful and offensive, and I seem to remember walking away from people who have said that to me. The bottom line here: be considerate and respectful of the person grieving. That's all. And isn't that true regardless of who they pray to (or don't pray to)? (*cough* I just totally wrote "prey" instead of "pray". Nice Freudian slip there, Ver. XD)
☁ This is too cute. I don't even like kids, and this made me want to hug him. The parents, too. He's a lucky kid to have such accepting and open-minded parents. That being said, assuming it's not something he ends up growing out of later- knowing you're gay at six? Just. Wow. O_o
☁ I read this book yesterday that is, for some reason I have yet to figure out, bringing a couple of original muses back to the foreground of my mind. I haven't thought about them, or their story, in ages. The book isn't even related to the story in any way, except one character's tendency to overthink things. WTF brain?
I don't know, maybe I should look at it again. I stopped due to a nasty case of writer's block- I got two characters in a particular situation and couldn't figure out how to get them out of it- but maybe if I approach it from a different angle? The other problem was that I found that the more I wrote, the more I -despised- my main character. The different angle I'm thinking of would solve that as well, because it would shift the main focus from the annoying little brat to someone I actually like. The only problem is that originally, the POV shifted between four different main-ish characters, with the one I call the main as the hub basically. Changing this causes a whole bunch of other issues as far as things being shown. I guess I'll have to try and figure it out at some point.
☁ I read a lot of m/m fiction. (I know that comes as a shock to you all.) It's a genre that's very hit or miss, from my experience. I've read some wonderful things. I've also read things that never should've seen the light of day. Quality of writing is all over the place- not just with things like characters, but with basics like GRAMMAR and PUNCTUATION. I swear to god, some of these editors need to be fired. Anyway. While, obviously, mistakes happen regardless of genre (nobody's perfect), I've NEVER seen this kind of lack of editing or grasp of the basics in ANY other genre.
This does have a point, I swear. I wrote a review on Goodreads of a book recently- the novel was fabulous, by the way, and I said as much- where I mentioned that my expectations had not been terribly high, due to previous experience. Another reader asked me why, and after I explained, she pretty much jumped all over me. Uh... OBVIOUSLY the quality of the book is going to depend on the quality of editing and the ability of the author, regardless of genre. I know that, I'm not a moron. It just seems that there are lesser quality editors at m/m publishers. Or, also possible, is that certain m/m publishers put quantity over quality. I AM ALLOWED TO HAVE MY OPINION, LEAVE ME ALONE, WOMAN! The best part? She hasn't even read the book in question. So now, according to her, she's going to have to read it because I held up up as an example of good writing. Great. Now if she doesn't like it (And there's a good chance she won't. Looking at the handful of books we have in common, we have VERY different tastes.), then she's going to be up my ass about how I don't know what I'm talking about or whatever. Wonderful. Why do people have to pick fights over stupid shit?
no subject
Date: August 19th, 2011 01:45 pm (UTC)From:The thought, quite possibly gives me the vapours.
;)
no subject
Date: August 19th, 2011 01:59 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: August 20th, 2011 04:02 am (UTC)From:However, sometimes people just don't know, especially since a lot of us aren't open about our beliefs due to the crap we get for it. They can't be blamed for that. The intention was not to hurt and that makes all the difference in the world, at least in my mind. Of course, that puts the person grieving in a dilemma, because then you're forced to either put up and shut up, or come out of the Atheist closet so to speak, and that can cause very badly timed problems. Honestly? I think the best thing to do is to leave religion out of it, unless you know for absolute certain where they stand religiously. In my experience, everything sounds pretty hollow when you've just lost someone anyway, so it doesn't really matter what you say. Might as well not risk accidentally offending them.